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On 12/3/2016 at 10:15 PM, RicketyFrog said:

 

Mine was pulling the flask out of my boot after the win and passing it around my group and a few 70's era lettermen who had tears in their eyes. Best damn whiskey I ever drank.

 

I've mentioned it before, but it's been a while.  I got my acceptance letter to TCU just days before that game.  No one at my high school in Virginia had heard of TCU (except for one teacher who was at UVA when we played them in a bowl game).  After that win, there were people talking about them.  Not massive, but definitely got us on the radar for people who wouldn't have noticed us before.  By the end of my 4.5 years at TCU, it was well recognized in that area.

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On 12/3/2016 at 9:35 PM, Jared said:

My favorite memory of that game (aside from the tackle on the opening KO, of course) was Basil Mitchell on a wide option blowing past Liz Claiborne after he took the inside fake and streaking all the way for a TD right in front of me in the stands.  And London Dunlap's safety which wasn't called.

 

I was in 8th grade at the time and for some reason I was watching parts of that game (a little odd for a kid in rural southwestern PA).  I remember being impressed with Basil Mitchell and I immediately picked up TCU as one of my favorite teams on NCAA football for Playstation. 

 

I may have heard of TCU before, but I don't recall it.  After that game TCU was stuck in my mind.  I followed TCU football as best I could (at that time it was via paragraph long clippings in the local newspaper, which were only available if TCU did something notable) and researched them a little via info at my DOC church and college info at the local library.  After the NCAA tournament flameout, I cooled on the school a bit because they weren't very newsworthy in my area.  Around 10th grade I started to get pressure from church folk to attend Bethany, the local DOC school, but I didn't want to stay that close to home.  That's when I started to explore TCU further.   

 

That game was the first step in my journey to TCU. 

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On 12/5/2016 at 3:24 PM, Horny Toad said:

 

I was in 8th grade at the time and for some reason I was watching parts of that game (a little odd for a kid in rural southwestern PA).  I remember being impressed with Basil Mitchell and I immediately picked up TCU as one of my favorite teams on NCAA football for Playstation. 

 

I may have heard of TCU before, but I don't recall it.  After that game TCU was stuck in my mind.  I followed TCU football as best I could (at that time it was via paragraph long clippings in the local newspaper, which were only available if TCU did something notable) and researched them a little via info at my DOC church and college info at the local library.  After the NCAA tournament flameout, I cooled on the school a bit because they weren't very newsworthy in my area.  Around 10th grade I started to get pressure from church folk to attend Bethany, the local DOC school, but I didn't want to stay that close to home.  That's when I started to explore TCU further.   

 

That game was the first step in my journey to TCU. 

That's cool.  The reason you saw parts of the game was because it was nationally broadcast on CBS, which was our first OTA telecast in years, although we had been on ESPN once every year or so before that in games we always lost (most times embarrassingly).  And, because it was a blueblood (USC), it got even more attention than it might normally have gotten.  The prior year, although we had good athletes, everything went wrong for us in Pat Sullivan's final year and we were 1-10.  And the following Spring, the WAC broke up because of the Gang of 5 and we were relegated yet again after the SWC had broken up in 1994 (and finished in 1995-6).  And the new MWC took their ESPN contract with them, so we were potentially faced with being in the depleted WAC, with no TV deal and only losing teams that weren't included in the MWC (and therefore never ever again even being on TV).  But we got a new AD (Hyman) and a new head coach (Fran) and the team upset Air Force 35-34 and fought back from a 4-5 record in mid-November to beat Tulsa and UNLV to finish 6-5.  That was good but, in those days, it didn't mean that we would actually get a bowl invite.

 

So even getting a bowl invite was a BIG deal for us; especially that year.  We were NOT expected to get such a bid - Air Force won the WAC and was going to the Holiday Bowl, but there were other WAC teams with better records than 6-5 and the WAC had few bowl-tie-ins.  But that was the first year of the BCS and not everyone understood that the BCS Bowls could select non-champs as at large teams, which would then have a domino effect on that conference's other bowl-eligible teams in the bowls that they could attend.  Going into the last week of the season (TCU had already finished), it was expected that UCLA would go to the Rose Bowl but they had to beat Miami to assure that.  When they didn't, the domino effect affected both the Pac and the Big 10 (because Ohio State got the Sugar Bowl bid in place of the Pac team that was expected to).  All the Big10 teams moved up in their bowls (and all the Pac teams moved down - moving, incredibly, USC down to the Sun Bowl) and the Sun Bowl was left hanging, so they had to have a replacement for the Big10 team that couldn't show..  TCU fans noticed that possibility/likelihood before others did and we acted on it, with the famous Malcolm Louden/Fran trip to El Paso to convince the Sun Bowl to consider us as an alternate.  Which ended up happening - suddenly, having no bowl at all turned into a bowl bid on national OTA TV against a blueblood in USC.

 

After the game (and the huge upset of USC), the new Mobile Bowl did a deal with the remaining WAC to select a WAC team for one of their spots saying that they wanted a "team like TCU" because they also saw the game on CBS.  That led to our next two bowl bids.  And Fox, a little fledgling TV network, did a deal with the depleted WAC to show 6 games the next year, 5 of which ended up showing TCU.  So, because of that Sun Bowl win, suddenly, we had possible bowl bids and we had TV coverage (albeit small).  And we also had a bona fide star (LT), who led the nation in rushing in both 1999 and 2000 and went on a Heisman run.  Just getting into the Sun Bowl was huge, winning it over USC was huger and a whole lot stemmed from that  - students like you, recruits, much higher attendance, more media attention, more bowl bids, more TV and even though Fran bolted, CGP stayed and the program just developed on and on after that.  The whole Sun Bowl experience was pivotal, it turned around our football profile, our overall athletic profile and, really, the whole university.

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6 hours ago, crunch said:

1994 Poulan Weedeater Independence Bowl in Shreveport.  It was a monsoon, and cold.  I had a very dissimilar casino experience to Rickety at Isle of Capri.  I hate Blackjack.  

 

Blackjack is how I won. I'm a psuedo card counter. If I feel like sitting long enough, I can always win at least a little. Even with giant multi-deck shoes. Back in the early 90's it was easier.  Everyone had lower table minimums(a must), higher max bets, and better odds than they do now. They didn't have 10 deck shoes back then which a few places do now. Everyone has at least 8 deck shoes now it seems. Thing with blackjack is that you just need a little bit of an edge to win. I've stayed up for many hours (once for just under 20 hours) when I'm stubborn enough just to make sure I'll win a little. Did the 20 hrs. at the Tropicana in AC. The pit bosses were rude and frankly seemed amateurish compared to Vegas. They pissed me off enough that I wasn't going to give up until I got ahead. Finally got a shoe to turn for me at around 6 am the day after I started. I quickly got back even, then a few hundred ahead and stumbled a few blocks back to the hotel, then passed out. Wife was pissed. She'd come in and out of the casino trying to get me to quit a couple of times. But sometimes a mans just gotta do what a mans got to do.....he he.

 

When we were at Tunica, I was only at the table for 30 minutes. I started winning the second I sat down. Never even fooled with trying to count. Just kept letting it ride. I had $450 on each of 3 aces for my final hand, all house money. Hit blackjack on them all. Just scraped up all my chips and got up. Knew there was nowhere to go but down after that. Just walked around watching the others in our group keep losing and losing while getting drunk for freeeeeeee!

 

Poker bores me. Takes too long for my adhd self. Slots don't do much for me either.

 

Craps is my true favorite game, but man, i've lost my shirt fast too many times to ever really get into it. Nothing like being at a table and seeing half your budgeted amount for a trip go down in flames in 10 minutes.

 

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7 hours ago, Jared said:

That's cool.  The reason you saw parts of the game was because it was nationally broadcast on CBS, which was our first OTA telecast in years, although we had been on ESPN once every year or so before that in games we always lost (most times embarrassingly).  And, because it was a blueblood (USC), it got even more attention than it might normally have gotten.  The prior year, although we had good athletes, everything went wrong for us in Pat Sullivan's final year and we were 1-10.  And the following Spring, the WAC broke up because of the Gang of 5 and we were relegated yet again after the SWC had broken up in 1994 (and finished in 1995-6).  And the new MWC took their ESPN contract with them, so we were potentially faced with being in the depleted WAC, with no TV deal and only losing teams that weren't included in the MWC (and therefore never ever again even being on TV).  But we got a new AD (Hyman) and a new head coach (Fran) and the team upset Air Force 35-34 and fought back from a 4-5 record in mid-November to beat Tulsa and UNLV to finish 6-5.  That was good but, in those days, it didn't mean that we would actually get a bowl invite.

 

So even getting a bowl invite was a BIG deal for us; especially that year.  We were NOT expected to get such a bid - Air Force won the WAC and was going to the Holiday Bowl, but there were other WAC teams with better records than 6-5 and the WAC had few bowl-tie-ins.  But that was the first year of the BCS and not everyone understood that the BCS Bowls could select non-champs as at large teams, which would then have a domino effect on that conference's other bowl-eligible teams in the bowls that they could attend.  Going into the last week of the season (TCU had already finished), it was expected that UCLA would go to the Rose Bowl but they had to beat Miami to assure that.  When they didn't, the domino effect affected both the Pac and the Big 10 (because Ohio State got the Sugar Bowl bid in place of the Pac team that was expected to).  All the Big10 teams moved up in their bowls (and all the Pac teams moved down - moving, incredibly, USC down to the Sun Bowl) and the Sun Bowl was left hanging, so they had to have a replacement for the Big10 team that couldn't show..  TCU fans noticed that possibility/likelihood before others did and we acted on it, with the famous Malcolm Louden/Fran trip to El Paso to convince the Sun Bowl to consider us as an alternate.  Which ended up happening - suddenly, having no bowl at all turned into a bowl bid on national OTA TV against a blueblood in USC.

 

After the game (and the huge upset of USC), the new Mobile Bowl did a deal with the remaining WAC to select a WAC team for one of their spots saying that they wanted a "team like TCU" because they also saw the game on CBS.  That led to our next two bowls bids.  And Fox, a little fledgling TV network, did a deal with the depleted WAC to show 6 games the next year, 5 of which ended up showing TCU.  So, because of that Sun Bowl win, suddenly, we had possible bowl bids and we had TV coverage (albeit small).  And we also had a bona fide star (LT), who led the nation in rushing in both 1999 and 2000 and went on a Heisman run.  Just getting into the Sun Bowl was huge, winning it over USC was huger and a whole lot stemmed from that  - students like you, recruits, much higher attendance, more media attention, more bowl bids, more TV and even though Fran bolted, CGP stayed and the program just developed on and on after that.  The whole Sun Bowl experience was pivotal, it turned around our football profile, our overall athletic profile and, really, the whole university.

 

Ironically enough. I was at the Sugar bowl that year. Decked out in OSU gear to watch the buckeye stomp the Aggies. 

 

Good day. 

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10 hours ago, DirtyThirdFrog said:

 

Ironically enough. I was at the Sugar bowl that year. Decked out in OSU gear to watch the buckeye stomp the Aggies. 

 

Good day. 

Was that the year A&M upset K-State in the Big 12 CG? I think K-State had been undefeated but got bumped down to the Alamo Bowl and lost to Drew Brees and Purdue. 

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34 minutes ago, Boston Frog said:

Was that the year A&M upset K-State in the Big 12 CG? I think K-State had been undefeated but got bumped down to the Alamo Bowl and lost to Drew Brees and Purdue. 

 

I believe so. Michael Bishop was the KState QB... I coached with him at my HS back in 2010. Nice guy. Dude could ball.

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2 hours ago, crunch said:

You've never told this story...

Yes, tell us more, Dirty. 

 

Michael Bishop did a few funky local commercials in his day in New England. 

 

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2 hours ago, crunch said:

You've never told this story...

 

30 minutes ago, Boston Frog said:

Yes, tell us more, Dirty. 

 

Michael Bishop did a few funky local commercials in his day in New England. 

 

 

When I moved back to Houston in 2010 I took a volunteer coaching job at my HS alma mater to coach DB's (the head coach when I was there had stepped down to DC and we had a good relationship). The new head coach we hired had known Michael from his previous Job and Michael was trying to get into coaching. He was our OC that year. I think he was a year removed from the CFL at that point? The kids loved him. He was a decent coach. He and I would horse around after practice and he'd throw to me while I'd run routes. 

 

He always told me I had D1 speed. Not sure if he was being nice, but it was good to hear. Though, I kinda always knew that ;)

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1 hour ago, DirtyThirdFrog said:

 

 

When I moved back to Houston in 2010 I took a volunteer coaching job at my HS alma mater to coach DB's (the head coach when I was there had stepped down to DC and we had a good relationship). The new head coach we hired had known Michael from his previous Job and Michael was trying to get into coaching. He was our OC that year. I think he was a year removed from the CFL at that point? The kids loved him. He was a decent coach. He and I would horse around after practice and he'd throw to me while I'd run routes. 

 

He always told me I had D1 speed. Not sure if he was being nice, but it was good to hear. Though, I kinda always knew that ;)

 

I had D1 size and speed in college 

 

WR size with OL speed

 

I now have OL size with Dad speed

 

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On 12/5/2016 at 4:07 PM, Jared said:

That's cool.  The reason you saw parts of the game was because it was nationally broadcast on CBS, which was our first OTA telecast in years, although we had been on ESPN once every year or so before that in games we always lost (most times embarrassingly).  And, because it was a blueblood (USC), it got even more attention than it might normally have gotten.  The prior year, although we had good athletes, everything went wrong for us in Pat Sullivan's final year and we were 1-10.  And the following Spring, the WAC broke up because of the Gang of 5 and we were relegated yet again after the SWC had broken up in 1994 (and finished in 1995-6).  And the new MWC took their ESPN contract with them, so we were potentially faced with being in the depleted WAC, with no TV deal and only losing teams that weren't included in the MWC (and therefore never ever again even being on TV).  But we got a new AD (Hyman) and a new head coach (Fran) and the team upset Air Force 35-34 and fought back from a 4-5 record in mid-November to beat Tulsa and UNLV to finish 6-5.  That was good but, in those days, it didn't mean that we would actually get a bowl invite.

 

So even getting a bowl invite was a BIG deal for us; especially that year.  We were NOT expected to get such a bid - Air Force won the WAC and was going to the Holiday Bowl, but there were other WAC teams with better records than 6-5 and the WAC had few bowl-tie-ins.  But that was the first year of the BCS and not everyone understood that the BCS Bowls could select non-champs as at large teams, which would then have a domino effect on that conference's other bowl-eligible teams in the bowls that they could attend.  Going into the last week of the season (TCU had already finished), it was expected that UCLA would go to the Rose Bowl but they had to beat Miami to assure that.  When they didn't, the domino effect affected both the Pac and the Big 10 (because Ohio State got the Sugar Bowl bid in place of the Pac team that was expected to).  All the Big10 teams moved up in their bowls (and all the Pac teams moved down - moving, incredibly, USC down to the Sun Bowl) and the Sun Bowl was left hanging, so they had to have a replacement for the Big10 team that couldn't show..  TCU fans noticed that possibility/likelihood before others did and we acted on it, with the famous Malcolm Louden/Fran trip to El Paso to convince the Sun Bowl to consider us as an alternate.  Which ended up happening - suddenly, having no bowl at all turned into a bowl bid on national OTA TV against a blueblood in USC.

 

After the game (and the huge upset of USC), the new Mobile Bowl did a deal with the remaining WAC to select a WAC team for one of their spots saying that they wanted a "team like TCU" because they also saw the game on CBS.  That led to our next two bowls bids.  And Fox, a little fledgling TV network, did a deal with the depleted WAC to show 6 games the next year, 5 of which ended up showing TCU.  So, because of that Sun Bowl win, suddenly, we had possible bowl bids and we had TV coverage (albeit small).  And we also had a bona fide star (LT), who led the nation in rushing in both 1999 and 2000 and went on a Heisman run.  Just getting into the Sun Bowl was huge, winning it over USC was huger and a whole lot stemmed from that  - students like you, recruits, much higher attendance, more media attention, more bowl bids, more TV and even though Fran bolted, CGP stayed and the program just developed on and on after that.  The whole Sun Bowl experience was pivotal, it turned around our football profile, our overall athletic profile and, really, the whole university.

 

Speaking of the Sunbowl, I have these

 

XE3c2D.jpg

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48 minutes ago, Hfrog1999 said:

 

I had D1 size and speed in college 

 

WR size with OL speed

 

I now have OL size with Dad speed

 

 

I was Junior High OL size in college. 

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4 hours ago, DirtyThirdFrog said:

 

 

When I moved back to Houston in 2010 I took a volunteer coaching job at my HS alma mater to coach DB's (the head coach when I was there had stepped down to DC and we had a good relationship). The new head coach we hired had known Michael from his previous Job and Michael was trying to get into coaching. He was our OC that year. I think he was a year removed from the CFL at that point? The kids loved him. He was a decent coach. He and I would horse around after practice and he'd throw to me while I'd run routes. 

 

He always told me I had D1 speed. Not sure if he was being nice, but it was good to hear. Though, I kinda always knew that ;)

D-1AA, maybe 

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On 12/4/2016 at 10:27 PM, RicketyFrog said:

 

Yeah, the guys on that team are pert near 40 now.

Cmon!  You didn't have to remind me

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I sometimes wonder about the downfall of Fran. Did he just move around too much? Choose the wrong programs? Guy could coach, I always thought, but he got drummed out of Texas State a year or two ago. I know GP was a massive part of his success (obviously), but was Fran really that much of a fraud? I never totally understood him. 

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28 minutes ago, Boston Frog said:

I sometimes wonder about the downfall of Fran. Did he just move around too much? Choose the wrong programs? Guy could coach, I always thought, but he got drummed out of Texas State a year or two ago. I know GP was a massive part of his success (obviously), but was Fran really that much of a fraud? I never totally understood him. 

He could coach.  No doubt about it.  And he was the perfect guy at the perfect time for TCU.  He came in with a stringent program...processes and procedures for literally everything and he demanded excellence from everyone.  Candidly, GP still uses nearly everything Fran put in place.  Obviously, starting with the red tie, he started to get a little sideways.  I think his downfall was underestimating the value of GP.  He inherited some over-hyped DC's (I.e. Torbush) and never was able to sustain the success.  That and people figured out how to defend his offense.  I've stayed in touch with him over the years and am grateful for what he did for TCU...but...there was a lot not to like as well

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I think Fran's problem was that he would use inappropriate language and expletives with his star special teams' players (especially after they ditched class and school and the team and went deer hunting in advance of the most pivotal bowl game in TCU history) such that they were emotionally scarred for life.;)

 

From TCU's perspective, Fran's problem was that he viewed TCU as a stepping stone in preparation for a bigger perceived job opportunity.  If he had stayed, he would have had a stable well-paying lifetime job in a profession that rarely provides such opportunity and he would have taken the wild ride of "rags to riches" that we took and would have had a statue of himself in front of AGC and would have been remembered as a legendary figure.  Instead, ironically, he is viewed as the stepping stone that took us from Point A to Point B and then Patterson took us to Point C.

 

I agree and disagree that opponents figured out his offense.  Because it was so eclectic and included everything, from option, to air raid, to Power I, to pro style drop back passing, to shotgun, spread and the pistol, to west coast style short passes etc..., he could vary it to fit the talents of his players every year and every game.  With Batteaux and Mitchell, it was option.  With LT, it was LT to the right, LT to the left, LT off tackle,and LT up the middle and, maybe, sometimes, passes to LT.  With Dover (against Tulsa), it was drop back passing.  At New Mexico, it was something else and at Alabama, A&M and Texas State, something else entirely.  And he would change it based on the defensive weaknesses of the opponent.  Opponents knew what was coming (i.e., they knew LT was getting the ball); they just couldn't stop it because it always took advantage of our strengths and their weaknesses.  The problem with that is that it is even more dependent on the talents of his players than usual and if he didn't have the talent advantage, then it could be stopped.  He succeeded at TCU because, by and large, we were more talented than WAC teams.  Alabama had losing records before he arrived and was on probation and he turned them back into regular bowl participants which got very talented players.  At A&M, he succeeded as much as A&M usually does based on their-then talent.  But at Texas State, he was at a talent disadvantage and it didn't really work.  And, he never really paid much attention to defense and was highly dependent on whoever his coordinator and other coaches were.  When they were good, like Patterson, he profited, when they weren't, he didn't.  What sunk him was the A&M "charging extra money for inside injury info" "scandal," which considering Baylor and Penn State, wasn't really much of a scandal, but Aggies are weird and he got a little too greedy.

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17 minutes ago, Jared said:

I think Fran's problem was that he would use inappropriate language and expletives with his star special teams' players (especially after they ditched class and school and the team and went deer hunting in advance of the most pivotal bowl game in TCU history) such that they were emotionally scarred for life.;)

 

So much so that that former player can barely contain his own foul language in his current media position. It's pitiable, I tell you.

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10 minutes ago, PurpleDawg said:

So much so that that former player can barely contain his own foul language in his current media position. It's pitiable, I tell you.

The struggle is real

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12 hours ago, Liverlips said:

He could coach.  No doubt about it.  And he was the perfect guy at the perfect time for TCU.  He came in with a stringent program...processes and procedures for literally everything and he demanded excellence from everyone.  Candidly, GP still uses nearly everything Fran put in place.  Obviously, starting with the red tie, he started to get a little sideways.  I think his downfall was underestimating the value of GP.  He inherited some over-hyped DC's (I.e. Torbush) and never was able to sustain the success.  That and people figured out how to defend his offense.  I've stayed in touch with him over the years and am grateful for what he did for TCU...but...there was a lot not to like as well

I always thought of Fran-GP as being a little like Parcells-Belichick 

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On 12/6/2016 at 10:48 PM, Liverlips said:

This was awesome.  Thanks for putting that together Jared.  Brought back some good memories.  

 

I remember beating UNLV to go 6-5 and Fran turning us loose in Vegas for 24 hours (should be its own thread).  We thought that was the end after we got pounded by Colorado State earlier that season.  Thought for certain if there was a spot, they'd go.  Got home...Slinkard and I skipped class for a week and went deer hunting only to come home in the middle of the night and get rudely awoken by a call from a very pissed off Fran wondering where we'd been.  Said we had a team meeting in an hour and we better get up there or we'd be left behind.  I told him I was graduating, season was over...why the call...leave me alone.  Several expletives later he told me you're not done, we're going to a bowl, you're a captain and you better get your ass up here.  We made it...several funny stories from us walking into the meeting after not having showered in a week...sit down.  Fran says "Boys, you're going to a bowl game!"...place erupted.  Then he said..."you're playing USC"..."and you're going to whip their ass and here's how you're going to do it"...and the program has never looked back

 

I've told this story a million times, but Fran also said basically the same thing at the pep rally the night before. There was a big tent with booze and other stuff going on. All I remember was Fran showing up after he'd put all of yall to bed. He stepped up to the podium and all he said was, "I just want yall to know that we didn't treat this bowl game as a reward for the players. We came here to win."  Then he stepped down and was gone.  I remember turning to Norml and saying, "I think we ARE going to win this thing."

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Fran peaked at TCU with LT and used that success to lead to high paying gigs at Alabama and A&M.

 

We all peak at different times.  

 

I bet Charlie Strong peaked at Louisville with Teddy Bridgewater.

 

Success is incredibly hard to manage 

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32 minutes ago, Hfrog1999 said:

Fran peaked at TCU with LT and used that success to lead to high paying gigs at Alabama and A&M.

 

We all peak at different times.  

 

I bet Charlie Strong peaked at Louisville with Teddy Bridgewater.

 

Success is incredibly hard to manage 

 

 

I feel ya.  I just wish I hadn't peaked when I was on an episode of Sesame Street when I was 6.

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29 minutes ago, $mooth said:

 

 

I feel ya.  I just wish I hadn't peaked when I was on an episode of Sesame Street when I was 6.

 

At least you had a peak ...

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