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Radio Shack Killa

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1 hour ago, PurpleDawg said:

A short read through that woman's FB screed made me feel in need of a shower. It's so sad that people can hate an individual so violently who has shown no ill will toward them or anyone else for the sole fact of holding different religious beliefs. Actually, they don't even think Muslim is a religion. They see it as a lifestyle. Well, I'd like to have the religious and lifestyle habits of those dissenters paraded out for everyone to vote on. Then it might be a somewhat fair fight.

 

Well, Muslim is not a religion...but Islam is.

 

😉

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2 hours ago, Duquesne Frog said:

As far as I have read, we still don't know exactly whose lettuce had the E.coli on it.  Last I heard, no one as yet had been able to track it back to the grower. 

The original contamination came from a reservoir in Santa Barbara, CA, and growers on the Central Coast were the distributors of the bad lettuce. It wasn't just one farmer.

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3 hours ago, DirtyThirdFrog said:

 

Like the need for a supreme leader?

In libertarian's case the need for perfectly rational human beings who have no emotions whatever clouding their human motivations and who would never knowingly act to harm another human being. Such human animals do not exist regardless of anything Ms. Rand might have said before she started collecting Social Security herself.

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9 hours ago, DirtyThirdFrog said:

 

I know this is tongue in cheek, but I feel that way.

 

I don't "need" the FDA to "protect" me. 

 

Just my opinion though. 

 

I'm of the opinion, and maybe I'm wrong, that it is bad business to kill your customers with bad product. Also, it is clear that the FDA did not prevent this e-coli breakout, but I bet that distributors and retailers are finding new vendors to source their product. We just had the FDA in on a surprise inspection, not sure what they did. Checked some paperwork or something. We recently had a recall from one of our suppliers. We had to recall a ton of our product. Guess who we are not using as a supplier anymore?

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3 hours ago, Duquesne Frog said:

 

The point was that Libertarian/Anarchism and Communism are both academic ideals that have not, and I would argue, cannot, ever truly be implemented in any kind of practicable manner.  For either of those utopias to exist, they require behavior from human society that runs counter to all manner of historical precedence.

 

Not really.

 

Imagine if our school system was run by Walmart and everyday students learned about the past and present CEOs of Walmart. They would learn how great they were and all of the products they sold to the masses. I think we can all agree that is weird. But we go to a government run school and learn about all out great government leaders and not once do we pause to think that maybe we are being brainwashed. It's not against human nature to think critically, we just have been fed crap for so many years we are desensitized.

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3 hours ago, Duquesne Frog said:

 

I argue that you do utilize their services and benefit, you just do not acknowledge it.

 

Let me ask this.  Say we privatize the function of the FDA.  What is the profit motivation for a private entity to do it?  If that motivation existed, wouldn't the private growers do it themselves?  What evidence do we have that they would?  If the planters of the romaine lettuce had the foresight to test for E. coli in their product before it went out the door, why didn't they?  Did they make a decision (perhaps implicit, perhaps explicit) that the cost of testing their product wasn't worth the potential hit to their market share if they let it out?  Do you, at this point, know which grower to avoid buying from and how to spot their product when you go to the store?

 

As far as I have read, we still don't know exactly whose lettuce had the E.coli on it.  Last I heard, no one as yet had been able to track it back to the grower.  Why didn't the grower fess up to letting their product get out?  Did they have a profit incentive not to?

 

And then there is the obvious point, going back to the flaws of free market capitalism - what if you don't have the means to hire your own private food tester?  Phuc you? 

 

Any company can serve to certify production. The incentive is for manufacturers to achieve the certification in order to convince customers to buy their product. The Non-GMO Project is a good example of a non-governmental entity supplying certification for the public. Or what about Underwriters Laboratories?

 

Again, since I am back in food manufacturing. We have no incentive to kill our customers.

 

As far as the E.coli, the FDA did not prevent it...

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50 minutes ago, Rothbardian said:

 

I'm of the opinion, and maybe I'm wrong, that it is bad business to kill your customers with bad product. Also, it is clear that the FDA did not prevent this e-coli breakout, but I bet that distributors and retailers are finding new vendors to source their product. We just had the FDA in on a surprise inspection, not sure what they did. Checked some paperwork or something. We recently had a recall from one of our suppliers. We had to recall a ton of our product. Guess who we are not using as a supplier anymore?

OTOH, say you had killed a few consumers. Wold that kill the company or would it be able to continue? 

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1 hour ago, Rothbardian said:

As far as the E.coli, the FDA did not prevent it...

While this is true, the FDA can't be everywhere at all times and idiots who put vegetable crops near large animal feeding operations are just asking for trouble. Also, these places where a lot of animal crap is going to be produced should never be near water sources, as was the case with the Romain lettuce.

https://www.foodpolitics.com/2018/11/fdas-conclusions-about-the-e-coli-outbreak-caused-by-contaminated-romaine-lettuce/

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13 hours ago, PurpleDawg said:

While this is true, the FDA can't be everywhere at all times and idiots who put vegetable crops near large animal feeding operations are just asking for trouble. Also, these places where a lot of animal crap is going to be produced should never be near water sources, as was the case with the Romain lettuce.

https://www.foodpolitics.com/2018/11/fdas-conclusions-about-the-e-coli-outbreak-caused-by-contaminated-romaine-lettuce/

 

Welcome to the world of economic trade-offs. Except the point that the FDA doesn't have to be a governmental agency still remains.

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19 hours ago, Duquesne Frog said:

 

When I argued against this above, Rothbard accused me of fighting strawmen ...

 

I objected to more the 7th grade view of economic history...especially the Robber Barrons who used government money to build their empires.

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22 hours ago, Duquesne Frog said:

 

I argue that you do utilize their services and benefit, you just do not acknowledge it.

 

Let me ask this.  Say we privatize the function of the FDA.  What is the profit motivation for a private entity to do it?  If that motivation existed, wouldn't the private growers do it themselves?  What evidence do we have that they would?  If the planters of the romaine lettuce had the foresight to test for E. coli in their product before it went out the door, why didn't they?  Did they make a decision (perhaps implicit, perhaps explicit) that the cost of testing their product wasn't worth the potential hit to their market share if they let it out?  Do you, at this point, know which grower to avoid buying from and how to spot their product when you go to the store?

 

As far as I have read, we still don't know exactly whose lettuce had the E.coli on it.  Last I heard, no one as yet had been able to track it back to the grower.  Why didn't the grower fess up to letting their product get out?  Did they have a profit incentive not to?

 

And then there is the obvious point, going back to the flaws of free market capitalism - what if you don't have the means to hire your own private food tester?  Phuc you? 

 

I think it all comes down to whether or not you believe in a welfare state, or not. 

 

Taxation is theft IMO, plain and simple. It drives all of my other views. I mean I guess, sure. Phuc you then. But Again.  The market will figure it out. The churches figure it out. Rich philenthropic folks figure it out. 

 

When the government forces me to pay to taxes to fund things I don’t support it becomes immmoral. 

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5 hours ago, NewfoundlandFreeFrog said:

 

That one would think "the market" should get to decide in matters involving death--without the slightest bit of Sicilian input--is what I find hard to understand.

 

I find it hard to understand why we let the government pick winners and losers. 

 

The market isn’t deciding life or death here. People’s own choices and luck are deciding it. 

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20 hours ago, DirtyThirdFrog said:

 

I find it hard to understand why we let the government pick winners and losers. 

 

The market isn’t deciding life or death here. People’s own choices and luck are deciding it. 

 

The government isn't "picking winners and losers" when it regulates say safe food production. That's just plain silly talk. Given that people have brains, I submit that food safety depends, or at least ought to depend, on one hell of a lot more than "luck".

 

Re. taxes as  "theft" I met a Polaris systems engineer in a federal pen I worked at once who talked like that. He said that taxes were theft because he never signed the Constitution and so his taxes were illegally seized by government thugs. He was as well an incessant quoter from Atlas Shrugged. He was also otherwise crazy as a loon in many other areas but prescient of the far right of today: evolution, extreme religion, whites losing power, science (as evilly against God), etc. and this was the early 70s still. He would seem mainstream on Breitbart today.

 

I've always had adolescent thoughts about how nice libertarianism would be. It seems so rational on the surface. Then I watch a segment of Judge Judy and realize its functioning depends on assumptions about human nature that just aren't true to fact. 

 

The basic fact is that people need to squabble. Political systems are simply ways of directing the squabbling. Democratic-type institutions are about the best ways to promote both human advances and the need for squabbling around. Depending on individual rationality and the magic of unregulated markets alone has much less evidence for being good ways.

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What happens if I don't pay taxes?

 

They want to arrest me.

 

What happens when they arrest me?

 

They point a gun at me.

 

Taxation in theft at the point of a gun.

 

Socialism for the win!

 

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